holografique

So I'm curious to know if there are any others here getting up on their mileage. I just crossed over 19,000 and June will mark one full year on the car.

Aside from the quirks that we've talked about before everything has been great. However I am getting concerned around what appears to be contiued and increasing engine noise and fan vibrations (or other engine vibration related noises) that are becoming more and more audible from within the cabin.

The A/C moaning/whine sound was already a prevalent issue that for now I've just had to live with. But now as it's getting warmer out, I'm noticing what sound like low rotational vibrations even without the A/C on. One of which is soo bad that is sounds like im driving an old rickety car. It randomly and sporadically jumps in and out making it even more noticeable. It tends to happen immediately after turning on the engine, after the car has been sitting off for say 15-30min after parking and having driven from somewhere else. Call it normal day "running errands" use.

Again, I know this may seem nit-picky, but bottom line is my old TL never exhibited any such issues even upto the 150k miles I put on it before giving it to my dad. This is just unacceptable for a $60k premium luxury car that supposedely prides itself on being an extremely quiet vehicle.

I plan to get some isolation mics to be able to start recording and documenting these issues so that I can get validation from others that I'm not crazy.

holografique

So I got a pretty good capture of the noise just using my iPhone. I just need to do some small treatments to the audio file (filter out all the 60Hz and lower frequencies to get rid of the excessive engine rumble). I'll upload and provide a link shortly.

George Knighton

I'm way behind you. Still under 7,000 miles.

There's the tiny little whine that I hear when nothing else is going on. I don't hear it anytime the audio is going, and there are some passengers who cannot hear it at all.

weather

Holografique....I am sorry to hear about recent noise problems. Its unfortunate, as you said, that people paying so much money for a premium brand and subjected to these irritants. Again, they are not affecting the performance of the car or renders the vehicle non drivable but man they sure are a pain in the ass.

Look forward to hearing this sound file....

neuronbob

Interested, too. #firstyearproblems

From what you are describing, one would have thought these issues would have been noted during development given their obviousness. that doesn't always happen, though.

I'm sorry you and others have to be Acura's beta-testers. At least you are making things better for 2015 RLX owners.

CFoote

Everyone is a beta tester for first model years regardless of manufacturer...be thankful you aren't driving a first year German car (been there done that)

victorber

holografique,
I'm a little ahead of you with 19,910 and thankfully have not had this problem.
Hope your able to have the fix applied, please keep us in the loop...

holografique

sorry guys, had a busy weekend with my wife's b-day party and in-laws visiting. will have the audio file available later this evening.

holografique

Ok guys (and gals)...so here we go. These are 2 short 10-15 second audio captures using a simple iPhone 5S to capture the engine "rattle" / "vibration" noise that I'm getting in the cabin. Here are some steps to simulate the levels at which I can hear them within the car.

----

1. (NOTE: iPhone users only). Download this free decibel meter app for your iPhone

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/db-v...457245262?mt=8


2. Locate yourself into a fairly quiet room with a computer / laptop and a small set of speakers. These do not need to be high quality speakers, but need to at least produce 20-30db of volume or more.


3. Launch the application and hold your phone roughly 10-12inches away from either the left or right speaker.


4. While remaining still, take note of the baseline db reading on the app. Each persons baseline db reading may vary depending on the amount of ambient noise around you or within the room you are in (I cannot assume that everyone has the same testing conditions).


5. play back either of the audio files and adjust the output volume of your computer so that the baseline db reading increases by no more than 14-16db (e.g. if your baseline reading is 38db, then adjust the volume output of your computer till it reads 52-54db.)

---

This should give you a fairly accurate representation of how loud this "engine rattle" is within my RLX.

This noise is generated while running the car in idle, no A/C turned on. When turning on the A/C, the "rattle" becomes more prominent, at some points becoming very loud and fading in and out at various tones and frequencies.

TampaRLX-SH

Interesting. Now hearing it I can say I heard that on the 2 PAWS RLXs I drove. While in the 1st one with the dealer, I commented on it and suggested it was a loose heat shield flutter. He told me it was not a loose heat shield and there was a known source of the sound they were told in product training. (This dealer I have known for years).

Similar to when I purchased my RL, the car was so quiet that you hear sounds normally masked by typical ambient road noise. Still, I do not think this is acceptable for the type of car it is. It makes you think something is loose and does not make me feel confident the car has solid engineering.

When I was in the SH RLX, I did not detect this sound. I will be listening if I ever get more time in the SH RLX.

George Knighton

Wow. If I heard #2 all the time I'd probably get it checked out, for sure.

Luckily, we have damned good audio systems. :-)

holografique

Thanks for the feedback guys.

At this point half of me just says deal with it as it's not my car anyways and I'll be turning it in for a new one (or a TLX) in 2016.

The other half of me just wants to get this reported properly in hopes that Acura is listening/watching and takes the step to improve the quality of this vehicle. This shouldn't be happening on a 1 yr old / 19k+ miles $61k vehicle. I agree that this is poor engineering, whether it was the engineering or the QA team that missed it, this should be improved period.

getakey

Certainly sounds rotational. I have not heard this. Hopefully never will

Fabvsix

That sounds TERRIBLE! I could not live with that.....

Tonyware

Any chance you can lift the hood next time you hear it and try to pinpoint if its from the left, right, front, back side of the engine?

Edit: Try listening for it under the battery tray. I suspect its the same issue as the 4th gen TLs with the transmission filter under the battery tray https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-problems-fixes-297/weirdest-sound-ive-heard-car-880507/ that has gone bad and rattles. Just a guess!

holografique

^^^ I actually did just that the other night. From what I can tell, it appears to be the loud "rattling" / "clicking" that I've complained about since early on with the RLX engine that is starting to penetrate the cabin more and more. You can really here it underneath the car. I've got audio capture of it that I'll upload later.

It sounds like an engine with bad cylinders or lack of oil.

TampaRLX-SH

Perhaps this is a characteristic of the Direct Injection engines? The DI engines are noisier and clatter like diesels. Considering all the technology and engineering put into quieting the cabin, this noise should not intrude on the cabin. A few new diesels I have driven were noisy outside but no clatter entered the cabin.

Only good noise should be heard inside the cabin.

holografique

lol...I think you've solved the "injection fan" mystery! When I raised this concern to my Service Manager early back, he said the technician indicated it to be something to do with the "injection fan". What he probably meant to say was that it had something to do with the it being a "direct injection" engine.

You're description of it clattering like a diesel engine is EXACTLY what I'm hearing. The problem now is why its starting to penetrate the cabin more and more. I can say it was not like this before. Aside from the A/C "moaning / rattle" sounds (entirely different issue), this has never happened up until the last month or so as its starting to get warmer.

scv76

maybe your sound cancellation system is no longer working??

TampaRLX-SH

That is a possibility. Or the sounds generated by the DI engine are not a frequency the ANC addresses. It may also be the DI engine becomes louder with break in. Keep in mind the this is the launch of Honda's Earth Dreams DI engine series. We have no history with them for these types of characteristics. But I have noticed other brand DI engines tend to be loud and often mistake them for modern diesel.

holografique

I was not aware the RLX had ANC. At least I don't recall it being listed in any of the features of the vehicle nor in the manual (unless I missed something).

I'm assuming this is not an end-used accessible component or feature that can be looked at and requires service to be looked at?

TampaRLX-SH

Active Noise Cancellation (ANC)

A quiet ride made even quieter through innovation. Acura’s Active Noise Cancellation system cancels engine noise by countering it with opposing sound frequencies emitted from the sound system. Discreet microphones inside the RLX cabin monitor low-frequency noise and, when detected, the Active Noise Cancellation system counteracts and cancels the disturbance with an equivalent waveform. And acoustic glass further cocoons cabin occupants from auditory intrusion.

Active Sound Control (ASC)

Operating in unison with the Active Noise Cancellation system, Active Sound Control smoothes out the sound created by the engine as it goes through its full rpm cycle. Utilizing advanced in-cabin microphones and complex electronic sensors, the system moderates noise made at low rpms and enhances the more progressive sounds the engine makes at higher rpms.


https://www.acura.ca/rlx/interior

holografique

That's got to be something specific to the Canadian models then, because there is absolutely no mention of ANC or ASC on the www.acura.com (US) website. Literally nowhere.

So now I'm very curious what the deal is. Since the day I researched the RLX, I made sure I knew every single tech feature up and down before making my decision to lease one and I never recall seeing ANC/ASC ever mentioned. I remember even being surprised when it was announced on the TLX since it was the first time ever seeing mention of such technology in an Acura vehicle.

TampaRLX-SH

Interesting point. I too am having difficulty finding Honda / Acura feature lists that specify ANC. I only see ASC.

However, the SH RLX Press Release covers both in detail:

"Active Noise Control (ANC) and Active Sound Control (ASC)
Key contributors to the RLX Sport Hybrid's quiet, refined interior are Active Noise Control (ANC) and Active Sound Control (ASC). The two systems are comprised of dual overhead microphones, an ANC/ASC electronic processor, and the audio system's speakers. ASC/ANC operates whenever the RLX engine is running, even if the audio system is turned off.

ANC is designed to reduce low frequency sound in the cabin caused mainly by the roughness of the road surface. The overhead microphones pick up sound waves and send them to the ANC/ASC processor, which creates and sends a precisely timed "reverse phase" audio signal to a special amplifier. In turn, the amplifier drives the door speakers to cancel the original noise signal.

ASC is a related technology designed to improve the engine sound quality by making the sound pressure level more linear as the engine revs increase. Typically, engine noise doesn't increase in a linear way with rising revs; instead there can be many resonances that create peaks and valleys in the sound pressure level and an uneven sound. ASC helps smooth out the engine sound by creating a same-phase or reverse-phase sound signal as needed and sending it to the speakers. Though the system offers benefits from idle to redline, it makes the largest difference in the range between 1000 and 2000 rpm, where it lowers the sound pressure level with a reverse-phase audio signal. "

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=7507-en

It is not listed as a feature specific to the SH RLX.... I think it was an oversight in the PAWS RLX documentation. I was introduced to Acura with the RLs Bose system. But it is not unique to Bose as it is also in the TL, MDX, RDX and I believe even the ILX.

I think the easiest confirmation is if you see the small mic in the rear headliner. In the RL one the forward cabin mic is in the headliner just aft of the overhead console panel and the rear is near the real overhead light panel.

holografique

I'll take a look for the mics tomorrow on the drive to work.

thanks!

scv76

Boy, they sure don't talk about it very much. The only places I have found that reference active sound control are like this one.
Maybe one of the insiders can let us know more about it

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=7099-en

holografique

^^^ yea, like literally nowhere. It's not even talked about in the manuals. short of finding those mics, I'm under the impression ANC did not make it into the first year model release.

I'm curious if there is a diagnostic setup for the Nav system that lets you access and/or test the ANC/ASC to make sure it's working properly. I remember my old TL had a diganostic section where you could check and calibrate all the various components of the nav system, calibrate the touch-screen, electrical systems, audio, color customization, etc. etc.

holografique

nevermind, I found it. it was in one of the TSB documents for updating the system firmware. looks like you hold down the NAVI, BACK, and MENU buttons once the car is turned on. going to give it a try now...

holografique

So there does appear to be a mic in the back section on the overhead lights, but nothing up-front at all.

I checked through the entire diagnostics of the car and found plenty of diagnostics on everything else in the car, but nothing on ANC/ASC.

I guess short of more detailed info, I may need to take it to get checked out at the service center.

TampaRLX-SH

The forward cabin mic is probably housed in the overhead console. The VR mic is in there as well.

ANC is not adjustable, so it may not be mapped into the diagnostics - not all systems are - as it does not interact with Navigation or Acuralink.

I am confident it is in the PAWS RLX, just the documentation was not updated. The press releases focus on NEW technology added to the RLX, including ASC.

weather

Given all the issues that DI engines have (Carbon build up, noises like diesels etc), why is there such a push for this technology? Is the small gain in fuel efficiency worth it?

getakey

It is not in the manual, but I agree that it is there. What's interesting is that at idle or cruise speed, the RLX is quitter than the RL. However, upon hard acceleration, the engine seems louder than the RL in a good way.

TampaRLX-SH

That is because the RLX has ASC and the RL does not. Read the description I pasted above.

holografique

I agree, the engine sounds great when you push it. I just don't like all the idle noise I'm getting...

George Knighton

It's not just fuel economy. It's a part of an overall package that makes more power available more of the time, and more quickly.

The previous heads were very efficient and Honda waited until they could make a definitely perceivable difference in the felt performance of the motor.

sOLLEx

Yes, the ANC in the RLX has 2 mics, one in the overhead console and one in the rear.

George Knighton

I'm trying to decide whether or not I am really hearing some increase in wind noise around the driver door, or if you guys are just making me paranoid.

:-)

getakey

You mean it is artificial engine noise? I've read that they do this on other cars as well

TampaRLX-SH

Active Sound Control (ASC)

Operating in unison with the Active Noise Cancellation system, Active Sound Control smoothes out the sound created by the engine as it goes through its full rpm cycle. Utilizing advanced in-cabin microphones and complex electronic sensors, the system moderates noise made at low rpms and enhances the more progressive sounds the engine makes at higher rpms.


Translation: As the RLX engine rpms increase, the ANC is suppressed (masking less noise), allowing more engine sound into the cockpit. Whereas the RL, with ANC only, will suppress certain sound frequencies regardless of how much engine rev there is. That difference makes the RLX sound sportier in higher revs than the RL. There may also be more sound due to the DI version of the RLXs engine.

getakey

ok, got it
at the same time, we have the stereo increasing volume level as the car speeds up. double whammy

kind of like how 60 minutes added the engine sound to the Tesla in the video
ok, not like that